Rachel's Systema Writings >> Assorted Essays >> Systema and Krav Maga

Systema and Krav Maga

Before I discovered Systema, I wanted to take Krav Maga. I was attracted to the non-Eastern styles of martial art, especially combat skills that are easy and quick to learn. But something about KM just didn't click with me. I read a lot about it and watched clips. But I never did make it to a trial lesson. I think I was meant to discover Systema, because as soon as I read about it, I just had to see it in action. I was immediately filled with an intense desire to learn more about it, even going so far as to sign up for classes, a highly unusual thing for me to do as I am rather timid around strangers and will usually do anything to avoid group settings. I felt it was worth any amount of discomfort and anxiety only to learn more about my new-found fascination. I didn't feel the same way about Krav Maga, and yet, although I know Systema is right for me, I am still curious about KM and interested to find out more about it (this goes for many other MAs, not just KM).

This Krav Maga guy had placed an ad on a local bulletin board looking for a training partner. We met in the park yesterday to learn more about each other's styles. He has been practicing for two years. We spent an hour-and-a-half demonstrating and talking about our respective arts. I mean no disrespect to Krav Maga; I don't know a whole lot about it, so please don't interpret this as a criticism of KM.

Surprisingly, he told me that he thought boxing, not Krav Maga, was the best defense against any attack. The kind that Mike Tyson does in the ring (sorry, I don't know what this is called). It struck me as unusual that he didn't think his own art was the best defense, although he did show me many different ways of punching and said they emphasize punches in class. I asked them if they struck each other and he said occasionally, with padded gloves, they will hit each other lightly in the face so they don't lose it during a real fight when getting hit is often unavoidable. In the Guidebook, it says that taking slaps and other blows to the face is good practice, done with caution, of course. I have never done this sort of exercise in Systema class, when we punch to the face, we always avoid, and get hit only accidentally.

There is a Krav Maga stance, for both legs and hands. For the legs, it's one foot a few feet ahead of the other, and weight dispersed 50-50. The hands are up in front of the face and open to avoid a confrontation, accompanied by a phrase such as "I don't want any trouble here" (which so often seems to lead right to trouble). Once conflict has begun, the hands become fists. He showed me the different ways they use the hand. Open, closed, fist, claw, and individual fingers, KM has many different ways to attack with the hand. He showed me different kinds of punches and they looked like the kind of punches you'd see in boxes, with a very rigid arm, leaning into the punches with the whole body, starting with the hips, not unlike Systema, except of course the arm itself is tense.

He asked about Systema punches and I explained the relaxed, whip-like motion and offered to demonstrate, but he didn't want me to hit him. I can understand that, as he didn't really know me or my skills. He asked me to punch the air and I did, explaining that I'm not very well-versed in striking, and that it is considered to be an intermediate-to-advanced technique. I felt kind of silly striking the air, to tell you the truth. Systema punches look as if they wouldn't hurt very much, until you actually get on the receiving end. Striking the air doesn't really do them justice.

We worked on chokes; he choked me from the front and asked me what I would do. I went to the ground, kicking him lightly on the way down; I tend to do this when choked as it has proven a reliable way of escape for me. He was impressed with my escape although I feel as if I depend too much upon going to the ground. He showed me several equally impressive ways to avoid the choke by locking the wrists. I wish I could remember them in more detail. It was good work, the KM defense against chokes, grabs, and holds impressed me the most. My mom worries about this a lot, it can be a vulnerable situation for a woman. As comfortable as I am on the ground, I wonder about freeing myself from a mount, if it's a large man, I wonder if I would be able to escape. I feel comfortable with the chokes thanks to Martin's seminar, but I wish someone would come to Fighthouse and do a holds/grabs seminar, hint hint. I should get a copy of Holds, Releases, and Attacks.

Kneeing to the groin is used frequently in KM. He said in class they knee to the thigh to avoid hurting each other. So I guess it requires a little bit of play-acting as does slow-sparring (pretending to be at full speed and following the laws of gravity as they apply to full speed). Like Systema, they do a lot of knee-ing, not so much kicking. He said they don't do sweeps, and I think he might have said it is considered an advanced technique. I showed him how we defend against kicks, for example, attacking the base leg, or redirecting the kicking leg. I tried to explain how throwing a person's leg off by even an inch sort of discombobulates them. Even dragging someone's foot an inch or two can throw them off. By dragging I mean sort of like you are sweeping them, like you can drag one of their feet farther away from the other, so their legs are too wide apart, and it will throw them off. When a person is off-balance, all their consciousness is steered towards restoring balance. This is why getting comfortable going to the floor is so important. It allows you continue to fight instead of being distracted by restoring balance.

He said they techniques they use are "instinctual." But they do not look instinctual to me. They looked highly effective, but still techniques that need to be memorized, practiced over and over again until they become second nature, not, as Systema, simply nature. I also noticed KM seems to be external, even though there are many physical similarities to the practice of Systema, there are no philosophical, spiritual, or even, so far as I could tell, psychological applications of Krav Maga. It seems to be pure physicality, direct, dangerous, and aggressive. Lots of knee to the groins, jabs to the windpipe or eyes, blows to the fragile temple of the forehead, smashing the face, such as underneath the nose (hurts more than on the nose itself, for some reason). I have no doubt that if I were to attack him, I'd end up with missing teeth, a broken jaw, or possibly even dead. Whereas if he were to attack me, he'd end up maybe with a broken arm or possibly even just a bit stunned, depending on the seriousness of the attack. They are very different approaches, designed to meet different needs.

I showed him a very simple Systema defense against a punch, one of the first I learned. If the attacker is leaning into the punch, you can simply grab their arm and pull them forward and down. They are already going in that direction anyway. He asked if this wasn't using force against force, which KM also discourages, and I said No, not as long as they attacker was leaning into the punch, since they are already going in that direction. I also showed him how we use the shoulder to put pressure on the attacker's elbow, and how the attacker's own body weight can break his arm as you take him down. I demonstrated how we hold onto the arm when we take someone down, but he wasn't comfortable going down to the ground, so I gave him my arm and went down and told him to imagine all the ways he could break it.

To my surprise, at the end of our practice, he said he thought Systema worked great for me but that it seemed too hard to learn, whereas Krav Maga has a fast turnaround. I said about four months is the generally-accepted learning curve until a student acquires solid self-defense skills, and I think he said that a KM student could learn self-defense in just a few hours. I thought Systema was easy-to-learn; in my first lesson I learned skills that I continue to use, skills that would be very practical in a real conflict. Some things, like rolls and strikes, are harder to learn than others, but I think the basic defense and avoidance skills are easy to pick up. Maybe he thought it was hard to learn because I didn't show him any techniques or set ways of doing anything. I often showed him more than one way to defend against the same attack. I didn't try to show him how to do any specific moves, and I don't think he would have thought it so hard to learn if a Systema teacher had been there to demonstrate and explain specific movements. He wasn't as open to allowing me to demonstrate on him as I would have liked. I let him put me in a bunch of wrist locks, arm bars, etc., but I sensed a physical hesitation on his part to allow me to do the same. Maybe because he didn't know me, I am not sure. I wish there was another Systema-ist to demonstrate so he could watch. He mentioned that he might look into attending a seminar, and I said I'd do the same for the KM seminars (they are somewhat pricey, though. I didn't realize what a bargain Systema seminars are).

I don't mean to say that Systema is better than KM, although clearly it works better for me. Of course, anyone devoted to their art has a huge bias toward it. I explained that the way I do Systema is just my way, and that everyone has to cultivate their own natural way of moving. I never thought I was especially graceful or soft until I practiced with this Krav Maga guy. KM isn't interested in grace. It's just about getting the job done. With Systema, grace is not for the sake of beauty. It's almost like a side effect of the practice. No-one is trying to look graceful, yet they do. And that says something about the psychology of the practitioner, their relationship to the world, to other people. We aspire towards harmony, it is #1 on the list of Ten Tips in the Guidebook. It's no surprise that Systema movements are harmonious, or that such movement can be a force for good.

This interpration of KM is based on 1 1/2 hours of conversation and practice, some articles, and a few clips I watched. I don't have extensive knowledge of KM, which is why I am trying to learn more. He said it is taught to the NYPD and they do work on restraining and handcuffing in class. They also do multiple-attacker work, but they rarely work on falls, roll, knife or gun disarms, they do not take strikes. It seems our classes are so much more varied. There is no telling what Edgar might pull out of his magic hat for us to try. No two classes are the same. I sensed that their class emphasizes repetition, and that's why it does seem to me to be technique-oriented.

Also, it seems they spend less time developing skills that aren't literally fighting skills. In Systema, we sometimes do drills that aren't "realistic" to a street fight. We might do an exercise simply to develop a certain skill, like peripheral vision. In reality, my life will never depend on my ability to catch a tennis ball thrown from behind me by spotting it from the corner of my eye. But peripheral vision is an important skill to aid fighting. I think they are more narrowly focused with their training. It's meant to be learned quickly, like Systema, but one big difference I noticed is that it's quite serious. There is no laughing or mischief such as you will find in Systema class. It's not a game. I found it to be somewhat grim, but again, I can't emphasize this enough, different arts develop to meet different needs. KM prides itself on being a new art, without the cultural background, myth, or history of most other MAs. It developed from a specific need of the vulnerable state of Israel. Systema is much older and part of its tradition, as I understand it, is keeping civilians in training for times when they might be called to war. Games are one way to keep village boys interested in physical training. It's too bad today's children spend more time playing the video variety. I am often thankful that I spent my childhood in a world without personal computers, cable television, or VCRs. I spent my childhood outdoors, and that contributed greatly to the person I became.

Another difference I noticed is that the movements are more explosive and abrupt, and very aggressive. It's kind of a one-shot deal. It seems as if they aim to do one thing to take the attacker out immediately. Whereas in Systema, it's not always one thing, at least for novices like myself. Sometimes I have to move the person in five or ten different ways before I succeed in taking them down. He demonstrated a jab to the trachea. It looks as if it could be a lethal technique, but what if you miss? There is no mistaking your intent. The other person will instantly realize you intend to kill them. Whereas Systema, there is always the possibility of de-escalation, that the other person will be calmed by your movements and the conflict subside.

There is no spiritual aspect to KM. With Systema, you can help even those who are attacking you. Even if you must hurt them, to protect yourself, you may still helping them. With Krav Maga, the goal seems to be to do the most, not the least, possible damage. Although KM does not believe you should engage someone if you can possibly walk away. He demonstrated one scenario: someone repeatedly pushing your chest with their hands in the aggressive movements that often precedes a fight. He demonstrated allowing the person to do this three or four times, giving the impression that you were not going to do anything, then suddenly lashing out. I don't know if this is necessarily a reason to break someone's bones. Perhaps I have become too much of a pacifist, but it seems as if you might even walk away from such a scenario. Someone pushing you aggressively, trying to draw you into a fight, why would you want to accommodate them? I would walk away if possible, although it's hard to do once someone actual lays a hand on you, I'll admit.

Our practice made me realize how unlike anything else Systema is. To move without any thought of result, other than avoidance, what a strange way to fight! He seemed sort of incredulous at the principal of maintaining contact, of allowing a punch to just glance off rather than noticeably avoiding. When I describe Systema, it sounds impossible. Even when I practice it, sometimes I think, "It can't be that easy!" But it's easy, if you have a little faith. I don't mean the religious kind. Just accepting that things are the way they are, not the way you expect or want them to be. For me to dive into a roll from a standing position, that's a leap of faith. I have to trust that my body will take preserve itself from harm, we all have that capability, and it's truly a marvelous gift that can be cultivated and harnessed.